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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 11, 2014 9:42:16 GMT -5
Was Satan created in God’s image or is she God?
God would have been the only form in the universe and since we are created in his image then it seems logical that all entities that God created would have his form or image.
Vatican art depicts Satan as a female and depicts God as a male. Here we see man placing un-warranted blame on women. As usual.
The first commandment says that we are not to place anyone above God for anything. God is to be the epitome of all attributes including good and evil.
This makes sense from the POV of looking at God as being alone in the beginning, before he began to create. All good and evils have to have come from God’s essence. There can be no other source.
If good and evil are then equal in power, it follows that God and Satan are also equal.
That would explain how in Job 3;2, God complains that Satan moved him to do evil by destroying without just cause.
It would also explain how in the story of King David, God could be so vile as to torture King David’s baby for 6 days before finally murdering it. Only a Satanic God could do such a thing. Right?
Is that also why God denies us justice by not imposing his sentence on Satan and putting her in hell?
Is Satan as powerful as God and is that why God seems to be rewarding Satan with dominion over us and the power to deceive us all?
Regards
DL
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Post by rmcdra on Feb 11, 2014 10:44:35 GMT -5
It is written in the Old Testament that God is a jealous God. What does the God of All have to be jealous of? I think that pretty much tells us a lot about what the "god" of the Old Testament. If this so called god is jealous, then he has something to fear. If god is afraid then he is certainly not the God of All because what does the God of All have to be afraid of?
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Post by phantasman on Feb 11, 2014 13:53:54 GMT -5
I agree, rmcdra.
I try not to let the OT ways influence the truth Christ taught. If they were so correct, Christ wasn't needed. He never said "Moses and I are the truth, and the way".
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 11, 2014 18:48:09 GMT -5
I agree, rmcdra. I try not to let the OT ways influence the truth Christ taught. If they were so correct, Christ wasn't needed. He never said "Moses and I are the truth, and the way". Logic and reason. The gift that Christianity curses.
Keep those in your thinking, always.
Regards DL
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 11, 2014 18:52:37 GMT -5
I agree, rmcdra. I try not to let the OT ways influence the truth Christ taught. If they were so correct, Christ wasn't needed. He never said "Moses and I are the truth, and the way". Logic and reason. The gift that Christianity curses.
Keep those in your thinking, always.
Regards DL
Even with all the religious lies, you have maintained spirituality it seems.
You sound like Gnostic Christian material. It is a thinking man's religion and I recommend it to you.
You have to look at Jesus differently and not see him as your savior in the usual way.
May I have your ear?
Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
I have been asked to do an O P showing my beliefs and have written a nutshell view to fill that request.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.
“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”
This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.
During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.
The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.
I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.
I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.
I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.
Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.
This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y
Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.
Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?
Regards
DL
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Feb 11, 2014 23:50:57 GMT -5
I personally liked the idea that satan was one of ialdabaoth's creations. Like all the other archons that would make he/she just another bastardized version of the divine realm. Although good and evil may ultimately both spring from the same source, I would say it is more logical that God only causes good directly, and simply allows evil to exist. I feel that emanations cosmology is a very logical and adequate marriage of monism and dualism, and is sufficient enough for how I view the world. Although I would also recognize that emanations is probably more of a logical construction than the direct result of revelation."
The way I view Christ is that he has already saved all of humanity, all that remains is for people to accept that salvation/Gnosis. I suppose the only responsibility left belongs to humanity b/c Christ and Sophia have already done all the heavy lifting.
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 13, 2014 8:58:05 GMT -5
I personally liked the idea that satan was one of ialdabaoth's creations. Like all the other archons that would make he/she just another bastardized version of the divine realm. Although good and evil may ultimately both spring from the same source, I would say it is more logical that God only causes good directly, and simply allows evil to exist. I feel that emanations cosmology is a very logical and adequate marriage of monism and dualism, and is sufficient enough for how I view the world. Although I would also recognize that emanations is probably more of a logical construction than the direct result of revelation." The way I view Christ is that he has already saved all of humanity, all that remains is for people to accept that salvation/Gnosis. I suppose the only responsibility left belongs to humanity b/c Christ and Sophia have already done all the heavy lifting. If in the beginning if God was all there was, then all good and all evil emanated from God. Right? That is not just letting evil happen.
For evil to grow, all good Gods need do is nothing and you have your God doing nothing. Tsk tsk.
Do you see Jesus as a man or as a supernatural God/Man entity? We are all God/Man but it is the supernatural part I want you to speak to.
Was his death a part of your salvation. Did you really need saving? Do you believe that God actually sacrificed Jesus?
Regards DL
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Feb 13, 2014 10:18:15 GMT -5
Free will was the source of evil from Genesis through the Secret Revelation of John. It's easy to complain about God "allowing" evil to exist, as if that is somehow evil itself. However if God isn't powerful enough to allow us free will then what is the point of anything? He wouldn't be much of a God if he couldn't let us make our own choices would he?
I always liked the perspective that Christ was fully God and fully man. IMO the crucifixion was a symbolic act, and no Christ was not a blood sacrifice for an angry deity.
I'm here in this crappy place aren't I? Of course I need salvation.
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Post by phantasman on Feb 13, 2014 10:40:51 GMT -5
Logic and reason. The gift that Christianity curses.
Keep those in your thinking, always.
Regards DL
Even with all the religious lies, you have maintained spirituality it seems.
You sound like Gnostic Christian material. It is a thinking man's religion and I recommend it to you.
You have to look at Jesus differently and not see him as your savior in the usual way.
May I have your ear?
Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
Regards
DL
There are two ways to follow Jesus. One is to tag along behind him. One is to emulate him. When Jesus became Christ through the Chrism, I believe we are to do the same. Become as Christ, a different spirit but one spirit. There are those who are physical, and know physical truth. This is easily read and accepted into the mind. And there are those who seek (and find) spiritual truth through all things, including physical things (words?). How many times have you experienced (or heard), the movie was nothing like the book? It usually comes from a moviemaker not consulting with the author. To get his true vision of what he was putting into the writing. I see the common church as the moviemaker. The "big picture" to them is the bits and pieces that make the story interesting in (false)image. When one seeks the truth in all places, discards and accepts on a spiritual level, through a promise that the Holy Spirit will reveal it (truth) if we but seek it in spirit, then the image become clearer. Even the bits and pieces the common church follows. The OT was bits and pieces of truth. Christ taught all truth, as he was the truth. And man has returned to bits and pieces, dictating truth by physical control (the same trap the high priests fell into). I haven't moved into all (Gnostic) writings. As I take my time and digest content, through prayer within. And the rewards are fulfilling, IMO. I am seeing a much different (and larger) picture, than my 30+ years as an Orthodox Nazarene. Whether I consider myself Gnostic is of no importance to me. As names and labels are only used by men for identification purposes. To one man a brother, to another a heretic. I just continue to grow through the knowledge and wisdom I open my eye's, ear's and heart to, praying constantly to accept truth over ignorance. |
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Post by phantasman on Feb 13, 2014 10:53:02 GMT -5
Free will was the source of evil from Genesis through the Secret Revelation of John. It's easy to complain about God "allowing" evil to exist, as if that is somehow evil itself. However if God isn't powerful enough to allow us free will then what is the point of anything? He wouldn't be much of a God if he couldn't let us make our own choices would he? I always liked the perspective that Christ was fully God and fully man. IMO the crucifixion was a symbolic act, and no Christ was not a blood sacrifice for an angry deity. I'm here in this crappy place aren't I? Of course I need salvation. Hmm.. I see the crucifix as the end. Death. Many others see it as life, and wear it. Christ basically taught us to seek death. Bare our cross (this life, Aeon). The end (death) is the beginning of life. If we fear death, then we don't want true life. If we seek to gain all life, we will die.
The Lord answered and said, "Verily, I say unto you, none will be saved unless they believe in my cross. But those who have believed in my cross, theirs is the kingdom of God. Therefore, become seekers for death, like the dead who seek for life; for that which they seek is revealed to them. And what is there to trouble them? As for you, when you examine death, it will teach you election. Verily, I say unto you, none of those who fear death will be saved; for the kingdom belongs to those who put themselves to death. Become better than I; make yourselves like the son of the Holy Spirit!" -Secret James |
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Feb 13, 2014 16:47:15 GMT -5
The word "death" is a very symbolic word when looked at in these kind of contexts. IMO a lot of it is about a change of focus, shifting from the old to the new/ the false physical world to the real spiritual realm/ sin to righteousness/ illusions to reality/ etc etc.
The crucifixion/resurrection is both revelation and mystery, so I don't want to be the idiot who says "it is this, and not that," when I feel that the reality of the symbol is that it is many many things all intertwined together.
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Post by phantasman on Feb 15, 2014 10:38:30 GMT -5
The word "death" is a very symbolic word when looked at in these kind of contexts. IMO a lot of it is about a change of focus, shifting from the old to the new/ the false physical world to the real spiritual realm/ sin to righteousness/ illusions to reality/ etc etc. The crucifixion/resurrection is both revelation and mystery, so I don't want to be the idiot who says "it is this, and not that," when I feel that the reality of the symbol is that it is many many things all intertwined together. Secret James says examining it teaches "election". Election4.Theology . the choice by God of individuals, as for a particular work or for favor or salvation.- Dictionary.com I seem to think Christ was saying death was a good thing, a needed to gain life. It was good to die while in the world (to the spirit). Replacing physical with spiritual. He knew that physical was dying anyways, and offered undying spiritual. The ignorant fear the very thing that will save them. |
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 16, 2014 14:39:51 GMT -5
Free will was the source of evil from Genesis through the Secret Revelation of John. It's easy to complain about God "allowing" evil to exist, as if that is somehow evil itself. However if God isn't powerful enough to allow us free will then what is the point of anything? He wouldn't be much of a God if he couldn't let us make our own choices would he? I always liked the perspective that Christ was fully God and fully man. IMO the crucifixion was a symbolic act, and no Christ was not a blood sacrifice for an angry deity. I'm here in this crappy place aren't I? Of course I need salvation. I have an O P in the works for the more Christian places I go to.
Yours is almost a Christian view and not a Gnostic Christian one so I thought you should read it. I am not sure if I am finished with it yet.
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For evil to grow, all your good God need do is nothing.
If it is true that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing, ----then it is also true that for evil to grow, all a good God need do is nothing.
If you see evil as stable or growing on the earth, it is because your good God is doing nothing.
Is your God fighting evil? How?
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x
I hope it irritates the hell out of Christians.
If you and I can prevent a crime and do not, we are held culpable to some degree by our secular courts. And God FMPOV. We would be guilty.
If God is held to that same good standard then he to is guilty of a crime and sin.
God's morals are way beneath man's intelligent ones and that is why we have rejected his laws.
Regards
DL
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 16, 2014 14:44:39 GMT -5
Free will was the source of evil from Genesis through the Secret Revelation of John. It's easy to complain about God "allowing" evil to exist, as if that is somehow evil itself. However if God isn't powerful enough to allow us free will then what is the point of anything? He wouldn't be much of a God if he couldn't let us make our own choices would he? I always liked the perspective that Christ was fully God and fully man. IMO the crucifixion was a symbolic act, and no Christ was not a blood sacrifice for an angry deity. I'm here in this crappy place aren't I? Of course I need salvation. Hmm.. I see the crucifix as the end. Death. Many others see it as life, and wear it. Christ basically taught us to seek death. Bare our cross (this life, Aeon). The end (death) is the beginning of life. If we fear death, then we don't want true life. If we seek to gain all life, we will die.
The Lord answered and said, "Verily, I say unto you, none will be saved unless they believe in my cross. But those who have believed in my cross, theirs is the kingdom of God. Therefore, become seekers for death, like the dead who seek for life; for that which they seek is revealed to them. And what is there to trouble them? As for you, when you examine death, it will teach you election. Verily, I say unto you, none of those who fear death will be saved; for the kingdom belongs to those who put themselves to death. Become better than I; make yourselves like the son of the Holy Spirit!" -Secret James
Do you know what he meant when he said to put yourself to death?
After you do, you will no longer seek death. You are to seek more life.
Death tells you that your God is I am and that that is you. A you with Gnosis, and those with Gnosis seek life more abundantly, led by the spirit of God.
Regards DL
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Feb 16, 2014 15:25:32 GMT -5
Free will was the source of evil from Genesis through the Secret Revelation of John. It's easy to complain about God "allowing" evil to exist, as if that is somehow evil itself. However if God isn't powerful enough to allow us free will then what is the point of anything? He wouldn't be much of a God if he couldn't let us make our own choices would he? I always liked the perspective that Christ was fully God and fully man. IMO the crucifixion was a symbolic act, and no Christ was not a blood sacrifice for an angry deity. I'm here in this crappy place aren't I? Of course I need salvation. I have an O P in the works for the more Christian places I go to.
Yours is almost a Christian view and not a Gnostic Christian one so I thought you should read it. I am not sure if I am finished with it yet.
----------------------
For evil to grow, all your good God need do is nothing.
If it is true that for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing, ----then it is also true that for evil to grow, all a good God need do is nothing.
If you see evil as stable or growing on the earth, it is because your good God is doing nothing.
Is your God fighting evil? How?
----------------------------
x
I hope it irritates the hell out of Christians.
If you and I can prevent a crime and do not, we are held culpable to some degree by our secular courts. And God FMPOV. We would be guilty.
If God is held to that same good standard then he to is guilty of a crime and sin.
God's morals are way beneath man's intelligent ones and that is why we have rejected his laws.
Regards
DL
I'm fairly familiar with The Secret Revelation of John, and emanations cosmology. Free will is the mechanism which allows evil to enter the world, although all evil is caused by ignorance which precedes the second evil of chaos. There are other Gnostic views on the subject, like the Manichean view of dualism, or I'm sure there are more monist views, like the one in the Gospel of Philip. An all powerful God could prevent or reverse any evil in existence, yet He doesn't. So I really see no other logical explanation for evil except free will. If you have one feel free to share. However I would appreciate you not saying my view is "Not Gnostic" because it is, and I have given you plenty of evidence for this. I don't want to get into a "Who is more Gnostic than who" argument because that is about as low as a message forum can get, as I've seen it happen before. |
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