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Post by Soulgazer on Feb 21, 2014 15:34:49 GMT -5
And you have shown yourself to be neither Christian nor Gnostic(LOL). What's your bag, Satanism? Deism? Naturalism? Or just plain Hedenism? "Gnostc" IS "Christian" except to the uneducated. The old nineteenth century "Gnostic was a competing religion" has been long since deflated, except to the Sylvia Brown typesw. If you are cutting the Jesus myth and self knowledge out of the mix, you can call yourself "Gnostic" all day long, but all you are doing is succumbing to ignorance, something that is anti-gnostic indeed.
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Feb 21, 2014 23:20:02 GMT -5
The big thing now seems to abandon all literalism in favor of myth and metaphor. While that might be what is most useful, and even accurate with in the context of the original texts, I personally see no reason to all of it. The Secret Revelation of John lists a different archon that afflicts each part of the human body. That is a very literal belief. So while the Gospel of Philip explains that "truth entered the world in forms" it seems obvious that there is precedent that Gnostic thought was at times literal and metaphorical. So you see no reason to use the more accurate and useful take on the myths. Ok.
Not too bright that but ok.
Regards DL
You're opinions are not what I'd consider "more accurate" |
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 22, 2014 16:27:02 GMT -5
And you have shown yourself to be neither Christian nor Gnostic(LOL). What's your bag, Satanism? Deism? Naturalism? Or just plain Hedenism? "Gnostc" IS "Christian" except to the uneducated. The old nineteenth century "Gnostic was a competing religion" has been long since deflated, except to the Sylvia Brown typesw. If you are cutting the Jesus myth and self knowledge out of the mix, you can call yourself "Gnostic" all day long, but all you are doing is succumbing to ignorance, something that is anti-gnostic indeed. Seems you prefer the Jesus that Roman Emperors created and not Jewish or Gnostic Christian created one.
Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
I have been asked to do an O P showing my beliefs and have written a nutshell view to fill that request.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.
“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”
This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.
During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.
The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.
I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.
I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.
I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.
Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.
This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y
Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.
Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?
Regards
DL
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 22, 2014 16:28:39 GMT -5
So you see no reason to use the more accurate and useful take on the myths. Ok.
Not too bright that but ok.
Regards DL
You're opinions are not what I'd consider "more accurate" That was what you had said. Not I.
Regards DL
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Post by Soulgazer on Feb 22, 2014 23:41:41 GMT -5
And you have shown yourself to be neither Christian nor Gnostic(LOL). What's your bag, Satanism? Deism? Naturalism? Or just plain Hedenism? "Gnostc" IS "Christian" except to the uneducated. The old nineteenth century "Gnostic was a competing religion" has been long since deflated, except to the Sylvia Brown typesw. If you are cutting the Jesus myth and self knowledge out of the mix, you can call yourself "Gnostic" all day long, but all you are doing is succumbing to ignorance, something that is anti-gnostic indeed. Seems you prefer the Jesus that Roman Emperors created and not Jewish or Gnostic Christian created one.
Care to compare the Jesus you know to the one I know?
I have been asked to do an O P showing my beliefs and have written a nutshell view to fill that request.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39. I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake and that makes me as hated by Christians today as the ancient Gnostics that Constantine had the Christians kill when he bought the Catholic Church.
“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”
This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of the O. T. God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.
During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness or what I call; the Godhead.
The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. It does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.
I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have exaggerated tribal mentalities and poor morals as they have developed a double standard to be able to stomach their God.
I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.
I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to ignore whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar of excellence and seek further.
My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.
Since then, I have tried to collect information that would help any that believe that apotheosis is possible, generally not Christians, --- as they do not believe in the mythical esoteric Jesus that I believe in and churches do not dare teach it.
This first clip gives the theological and philosophical interpretation of what Jesus taught and the second clip show what I think is a close representation of the method that helped me push my apotheosis.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbesfXXw&feature=player_embedded
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y
Basically, the usual Christian Jesus is their hero and savior while my version demand that man himself steps up to the plate and save himself.
Which version do you think is more moral and deserving of praise and why?
Regards
DL
Yoiur beliefs are much more Deist than Christian Gnostic. While we will agree that the old testament God is a made up sham,(we call it Yaldoboath) we will disagree on the role of Jesus. We believe Jesus is real because we make Him real. Meaning, that while I cannot argue that Jesus actually did all the things attributed to Him, or that He wasn't a composite of multiple persons, the Reality of the Christ makes itself known in our lives. Where you read black and white, we read psychology and a path to sanity, a trip out of the cave of worldly forms and into the divine light. To be Gnostic is an upward spiral away from the flesh, including anger. Anger isn't even a primary emotion, but a secondary one piggybacking on forms of fear. "know thyself" isn't just a cute saying--- it means to know ALL of yourself, the bad and the good, to know what effects what, and a door way out of the slavery of the base instinct of our worldly avatars. Cling to the good, for everything dissolves into it's roots. That is Gnostic. It's spelled out in the Gospel of Mary: 10) And desire said,(to the departing soul) I did not see you descending, but now I see you ascending. Why do you lie since you belong to me? 11) The soul answered and said, I saw you. You did not see me nor recognize me. I served you as a garment and you did not know me. 12) When it said this, it (the soul) went away rejoicing greatly. 13) Again it came to the third power, which is called ignorance. 14) The power questioned the soul, saying, Where are you going? In wickedness are you bound. But you are bound; do not judge! 15) And the soul said, Why do you judge me, although I have not judged? 16) I was bound, though I have not bound. 17) I was not recognized. But I have recognized that the All is being dissolved, both the earthly things and the heavenly. 18) When the soul had overcome the third power, it went upwards and saw the fourth power, which took seven forms. 19) The first form is darkness, the second desire, the third ignorance, the fourth is the excitement of death, the fifth is the kingdom of the flesh, the sixth is the foolish wisdom of flesh, the seventh is the wrathful wisdom. These are the seven powers of wrath. 20) They asked the soul, Whence do you come slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space? 21) The soul answered and said, What binds me has been slain, and what turns me about has been overcome, 22) and my desire has been ended, and ignorance has died. 23) In a aeon I was released from a world, and in a Type from a type, and from the fetter of oblivion which is transient. 24) From this time on will I attain to the rest of the time, of the season, of the aeon, in silence. While a literalist might argue that the test should be followed because it is written, a Gnostic will say as I do, I follow the text because I have seen it. What others do see or believe is theirs and theirs alone, because they do not see what we see. When they do, we'll be here for them. |
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 23, 2014 15:19:15 GMT -5
"To be Gnostic is an upward spiral away from the flesh, including anger."
Yet Jesus said that the kingdom of God was within. He warned of those like you.
John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Gnostic Christians know that literalism is a great evil and you would promote otherwise like an idol worshiper.
Shame on you.
Regards
DL
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Post by Soulgazer on Feb 23, 2014 17:38:42 GMT -5
"To be Gnostic is an upward spiral away from the flesh, including anger." Yet Jesus said that the kingdom of God was within. He warned of those like you. John 6 ; 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered. Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye. Gnostic Christians know that literalism is a great evil and you would promote otherwise like an idol worshiper. Shame on you. Regards DL You haven't thought it through. |
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Post by Soulgazer on Feb 23, 2014 17:47:15 GMT -5
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