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Post by xpistissopheiax on Jan 9, 2014 23:02:47 GMT -5
I read an essay by Philip K. Dick about his experience writing a book called "Flow My Tears the Policeman Said." He talked about replacing the illusions of the world with things that were real, and it's something I found incredibly insightful.
However I wonder if that is just something to do in our own lives, or if more and more people start to replace illusions with real things than will the material world start to change?
The ouroborus points to the idea that things are not fixable and I often find myself believing that the problems of the world that so many people waste so much time fighting about are all pointless b/c the idea that the world is fixable may be an illusion?
So I am pretty torn. I'm not familiar with "Marsanes" but I've read that it points to an eventual restoration of our world, however many of our texts point to the world as being illusory. So maybe our predecessors were torn also?
Any thoughts?
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Post by Soulgazer on Jan 12, 2014 14:55:55 GMT -5
There is an old saying; "If you want to change the world start with yourself". I think this backs up a verse in Thomas very Nicely: "(96) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a certain woman. She took a little leaven, concealed it in some dough, and made it into large loaves. Let him who has ears hear." Meaning that the kingdom starts small, but is like the yeast in bread, as one person affects another.
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Jan 14, 2014 12:10:32 GMT -5
I think that is very true, and it is how I view promoting positive change. I feel like given what we know about the world, even if there is no hope in ultimately changing it for the better, that making moral choices is still the best way to live.
I'm just hopeful that someday there will be a tipping point, and enough people will fix themselves to start healing the rest of the world.
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Post by rmcdra on Jan 26, 2014 12:06:21 GMT -5
Just because the world is illusion doesn't mean that the things we experience in the world isn't real. There are two things in this world of illusion that I know to be true. A piece of God dwells in each of us and how we interact with each other is also real as well.
Matthew 25 34 “Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’
What it means to say that the world is an illusion is that things are transitory. The wealth you accumulate, the status and titles you earn will not go with you when you die. What does last is the impression you leave by how you treat others. Is the world redeemable? Depends on what world you are talking about and what you are trying to redeem. If you mean world as in the people that live in it including yourself, that is very much a yes. Redemption is always possible if you are willing to admit when you make a mistake and are willing to correct it if you can, i.e. Sophia.
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Post by rmcdra on Jan 26, 2014 12:22:55 GMT -5
There was a very "gnostic"-ish quote I heard from a series I started watching recently.
"In the end, it's just a game do what you want. If you want to kill someone, kill them. If you want to steal, you steal. I've met more people who think that way then I'd want. In a way, it's true. I used to think the same way. But it's not true... There are things you have to protect especially because its a virtual world. I learned that from someone important. If you give into your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and the character are one and the same..." - Kirito, Sword Art Online
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Jan 26, 2014 13:22:06 GMT -5
I feel like it's certainly true that our experiences are real to us, so yes we still have a huge responsibility. However I still question or not whether positive change is itself an illusion and our hope for the "kingdom" simply shrugging off the grand illusion of this world?
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Post by Soulgazer on Jan 26, 2014 22:12:18 GMT -5
I feel like it's certainly true that our experiences are real to us, so yes we still have a huge responsibility. However I still question or not whether positive change is itself an illusion and our hope for the "kingdom" simply shrugging off the grand illusion of this world? It's no illusion if you are living it; that's our grand hope.
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Post by phantasman on Feb 3, 2014 15:18:31 GMT -5
I feel like it's certainly true that our experiences are real to us, so yes we still have a huge responsibility. However I still question or not whether positive change is itself an illusion and our hope for the "kingdom" simply shrugging off the grand illusion of this world? It's no illusion if you are living it; that's our grand hope. I feel, it started off that way. The perfect illusion, but a mistaken one. Through Christ (and his use of the serpent per A.o.John)we were made aware of the illusion and it's imperfection. Life became a pursuit of eternal perfection or accepting the lesser.
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unix
Junior Member
busy with full-time studies
Posts: 82
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Post by unix on Feb 7, 2014 16:51:46 GMT -5
Right now I'm working on improving my life by using less or no time to certain things such as buying books (using no time whatsoever for that now, not even discussing), not being jealous on my brothers because my parents have given them more valuable things, not sitting at the computer too long unless it's schoolwork, and working on being more gentle towards my best friend and less narrow-minded and talk less about really small things when talking to her and instead talk about what I see when we go for a walk. She suggests that I should take courses such as cooking, do a little bit of travelling or something to broaden my views. Unless I change she doesn't want to see me. We are not seeing each other right now. But I have own motivation to make these changes. I'm certain I will change in this direction.
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 10, 2014 10:58:37 GMT -5
At one time we lived under barbaric laws. We now live in more civilized laws and conditions and those changes are positive changes in the material world.
The answer to the question then becomes a demonstrable yes.
Regards DL
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Post by friendofsophia on Mar 8, 2014 12:05:40 GMT -5
I think about this question a lot. I'm working on my Bachelors degree in social work and I work at a homeless shelter for families with children. This world can really suck. The high value that's placed on power and money and the low value that's placed on other people even children is really frustrating. Something that has always struck me about the gnostic world view is that it doesn't answer the problem of evil with empty platitudes but faces it head on. With out a doubt the best argument against a good all powerful god is the fact that there is a logical problem with all three of the following existing simultaneously 1. God is all good 2. God is all powerful 3. Terrible things happen. Logic dictates 2 can be true but not all three. Like stated elsewhere, the free will argument is a good counter, in fact, if beings are given the power of free will this god would now not technically be all powerful (at least in the realm where free will exists) but could still be all good. This also allows this god to be all powerful, thus deserving of the title of "God", since some power was freely given to others.
I feel like this is how Gnostic Christianity addresses this problem of evil and I have yet to find something that makes more sense or better reflects my experience in this life. I don't think this True God just lets stuff run its course like the Diest's "clock-maker god". I've often been inspired by the words " Evil prevails when the good fail to act". I've seen this idea expressed in different words on this forum several times and it is certainly an idea that that is integral to the logical problem above. Also I've seen expressed on this forum the idea that the beauty and good of this world is the light of the True God poking through into this realm controlled by darkness. This is what Philip K Dick referred to as "The Divine Invasion" (in the book of the same name and also in VALIS). This is how I've seen it for a long time as it is the only way for me to understand the Jesus story. It never made a bit of sense to me for God to have to sacrifice his son to forgive his creation for making mistakes. But for God to incarnate into a world ruled by chaos and controlled by ignorance in order to free lost children (who in fact both created and are imprisoned in this world).......well at the very least its a better story and also seems to ring true for me and inspires me to face the darkness in myself and in the world knowing that I am not alone in this struggle. That even though there may seem to be far more darkness than light, all a light has to do is shine to defeat the darkness. This is where the dualism of flesh and spirit is important. The petty rulers of this world can rip our flesh to shreds, rape us physically and emotionally, and warp our minds with their counterfeit spirit but they can never touch that divine spark within (which is really what they're after). To me that's one of the layers of what the crucifixion is about. This is what I think the gnostics were expressing in the Apocalypse of Peter with the laughing Jesus on the cross and also what they were getting at in Hypostasis of the Archons with Eve's spirit becoming a tree while her body was raped by the archons........the tree which later offered the fruit of gnosis to wake up humanity from their Stockholm syndrome.
It's hard to imagine a fix for this broken world that just keeps eating its own tail over and over and over. Yet when I think of my own experience in life, years ago when I was still a hopeless suicidal drug addict/alcoholic the sum of my problems seemed like an never-ending Ouroboros. Yet like fallen Sophia I took responsibility for my mistakes and sought help.....and help was there....the grace and love was there.....not the pointing finger of a wrathful jealous god but of a loving spiritual Father and Mother. I also met my best friend and wife in the process of getting sober. We've faced our demons (or as I like to call them archons) together and by the grace of the True God we've been clean and sober 5 years now and our 3 year old has never seen either of us all f----d up which is a miracle in itself. So yes, positive change in the material world happens all the time...................but then again was it the physical world that changed or does Gnosis allow us to brake free from this world's swirling determinism? As I sit pondering this for a bit my daughter comes in the room and in a deeper voice says "raaar I'm a monster!" and we all have a good laugh.....and then what really matters all makes sense!
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Post by gnosticbishop on Mar 9, 2014 13:16:24 GMT -5
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