Why do you believe in God? | Unorthodox Christian

ln
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Why do you believe in God? Oct 17, 2015 7:46:38 GMT -5 phantasman and friendofsophia like this

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Post by ln on Oct 17, 2015 7:46:38 GMT -5

Hello. I've been lurking in this forum for awhile and only just now decided to make an account. I've been feeling lost lately. Life hits low point and I just... I don't know, I guess I just want to be reminded how it feels to have faith. If this isn't allowed please delete this, mod.

phantasman
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Why do you believe in God? Oct 17, 2015 11:07:03 GMT -5

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Post by phantasman on Oct 17, 2015 11:07:03 GMT -5

Hello, In. Welcome to the forum.

First, you are not anywhere that all have also been at a point in their life. When we feel low, as also when we feel elated, it is the mind that gives those feelings through images we conjure up through direct actions afflicting our physical life. Losing love is traumatic, falling in love is elation. Most feelings come down to a pain/pleasure scenario.

Most here gain their elation through spiritual knowledge. The more knowledge we receive, the better we understand those forces of what cause us to either feel negative or positive. We have to understand that it is the spirit mind that is the catalyst of the soul. So we seek enlightenment through spiritual teachings. Who we are, why we're here and what lies ahead. The first two determine the last, the "unanswerable" to many.

Some see themselves as just another animal on a planet of animals experiencing life like an animal. But we see that that is not true. A dog 6,000 years ago is a dog like today. But man develops. And the mind becomes more. But more toward what? When does it reach a point of not being able to learn? Physically by death? Memories, ideas and thoughts are not physical. You can't enter a mind and grab a thought. We see this as a realm where spirit and physical meet.

Jesus said "It is the spirit that makes you alive. The flesh profits nothing" John 8

So to become more alive, we seek spiritual understanding. The more the spirit learns of itself, the more elation we receive, the more we then seek, to eliminate ignorance from our existence. The Bible is a good starting place. But there are dozens of other books used by the earliest Christians that have more answers and compliment the gospel (good news) taught and died for by Jesus and his many disciples. To get an idea of what sets us free from these "low" feelings you are experiencing, we need to seek out truth through understanding. This message from the Gospel of Philip is in line with the canon books and helps in an explanation:

"Most things in the world, as long as their inner parts are hidden, stand upright and live. If they are revealed, they die, as is illustrated by the visible man: as long as the intestines of the man are hidden, the man is alive; when his intestines are exposed and come out of him, the man will die. So also with the tree: while its root is hidden, it sprouts and grows. If its root is exposed, the tree dries up. So it is with every birth that is in the world, not only with the revealed but with the hidden. For so long as the root of wickedness is hidden, it is strong. But when it is recognized, it is dissolved. When it is revealed, it perishes. That is why the Word says, "Already the axe is laid at the root of the trees" (Mt 3:10). It will not merely cut - what is cut sprouts again - but the ax penetrates deeply, until it brings up the root. Jesus pulled out the root of the whole place, while others did it only partially. As for ourselves, let each one of us dig down after the root of evil which is within one, and let one pluck it out of one's heart from the root. It will be plucked out if we recognize it. But if we are ignorant of it, it takes root in us and produces its fruit in our heart. It masters us. We are its slaves. It takes us captive, to make us do what we do not want; and what we do want, we do not do. It is powerful because we have not recognized it. While it exists it is active. Ignorance is the mother of all evil. Ignorance will result in death, because those who come from ignorance neither were nor are nor shall be. [...] will be perfect when all the truth is revealed. For truth is like ignorance: while it is hidden, it rests in itself, but when it is revealed and is recognized, it is praised, inasmuch as it is stronger than ignorance and error. It gives freedom. The Word said, "If you know the truth, the truth will make you free" (Jn 8:32). Ignorance is a slave. Knowledge is freedom. If we know the truth, we shall find the fruits of the truth within us. If we are joined to it, it will bring our fulfillment."- Gospel of Philip

It's all about knowing yourself. Until one does, it is hard(er) to know God.

Last Edit: Oct 17, 2015 11:10:34 GMT -5 by phantasman

friendofsophia
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Why do you believe in God? Oct 18, 2015 13:26:47 GMT -5 phantasman likes this

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Post by friendofsophia on Oct 18, 2015 13:26:47 GMT -5

Welcome In! The simple act of reaching out in time of need with a faint hope that someone might care (like posting on a forum for the first time)........and the fact that it inspires someone else to reach back..........that very simple "love" is, perhaps, the most simplified form my concept of "God". To me it is one example of the Light that shines in the darkness that the darkness has not overcome (paraphrasing my favorite line from the Gospel of John 1:5).

Of course the reason I attribute this to the word "God" has a lot to do with the fact that I was raised Christian. The emphasis on love, wisdom, and forgiveness of the Jesus story impacted me very deeply......yet even at an early age the vengeful, wrathful, jealous god of the old testament seemed entirely incompatible with this ideal. I always kind of figured the old testament was misunderstood somehow.....but as the reality of the world crept into my childhood experiences it became obvious that what I was praying for wasn't happening.....and as the amount of suffering in the world slowly became apparent.....the idea that alot of peoples prayers were being ignored as well. The implications of the "problem of evil" is always the best argument against an all loving and all powerful god. Yet I could never reject my concept of God completely because I always felt some glimmer of hope, there was always something in this often dark world that seemed to shine through the darkness when I needed it most. This continued as I got older.....the obviousness of the amount of nonsense attached to Christianity became more and more apparent.....however, I returned time and time again to the idea of that there was some profound truth to the Jesus story that was being misunderstood.

My experience of dealing with overcoming drug/alcohol addiction and suicidal obsession (all in the nick of time really) provided the experiential understanding of love, wisdom, and forgiveness of God. In attempting to face my personal demons (though I prefer the Gnostic term archons) I met my future wife who was struggling with many of the same things I was. The many people that came into my life when I needed them most, the incredible insight into others and to the nature of God that came with increased self-knowledge, the way the seemingly unshakable "rules" of this world can be bent, broke, or worked around by love an wisdom............when I started studying Gnostic Christianity, it all clicked........the things their elaborate other worldly myths were describing were things that I had experienced. They to rejected the "god" of this world but saw themselves as emanations of the true fullness (Pleroma in Greek) of God..........but lost here in the Kenoma (emptiness). This struck a chord with me then and continues to do so. So to answer your question, this is why I believe in God. I have experienced that which I choose to call Christ and Sophia in my life......rather than a blind faith in what I have been told, fearing social disapproval or eternal damnation......my faith stems from what I have experienced.....it is a faith more likened to the faith that when I blink, what I see will still be there. And I will admit that even that kind of faith is hard to maintain in this world. This year has been a real struggle at times for me......the Gnostics considered this world to be a "Sea of Forgetfullnes" and it often is just that. Yet, just in time, there always comes a reminder, just in the way I need it the most, of the Gnosis of Christ within me (with unlimited untapped potential) and of the comforter: the Holy Spirit Sophia holding me with love unconditionally and opening my eyes to so many paths that once seemed blocked.

.......I know this probably seems like too much. But like Phantasman was pointing out, it starts with looking inward.....what's your inner conversations look like?.....from where comes the inner critic (always judging and belittling you).....is there another part that just wants to be free (but also believes the inner critic too much and whose drive for freedom often leads to more bondage)............and can you find that true inner authority that has been asleep at the wheel and has been turning it over to those other two (and probably more). What if that inner authority choose to listen to that which holds it in love rather than the inner critic. What if it realized the part that wants to be free is just a younger version of itself that has been stunted along the way, believing the lies of the inner critic. What if real freedom and real love are not only possible but inevitable when the barriers (like petty rulers) are overcome.....and perhaps even redeemed.

There is a way.......look until you find, when you find you will become disturbed, being disturbed you will come to marvel, then you will overcome that which binds you...and you will then help set others free as well. (paraphrased from the Gospel of Thomas).

tblue
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Why do you believe in God? Oct 23, 2015 11:18:19 GMT -5 phantasman likes this

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Post by tblue on Oct 23, 2015 11:18:19 GMT -5

Oct 17, 2015 7:46:38 GMT -5 ln said:

Hello. I've been lurking in this forum for awhile and only just now decided to make an account. I've been feeling lost lately. Life hits low point and I just... I don't know, I guess I just want to be reminded how it feels to have faith. If this isn't allowed please delete this, mod.

The Holy Spirit was revealed to me through the spiritual path of AA. Unfortunately, what the early AAers found and passed on to us was covered over by Ego in the passage of time. Rarely have I found the term "Great Reality Within" (Holy Spirit) spoken of in AA circles over the last 16 years (and, sadly, an unwillingness to reconsider the topic).

The good news is that one doesn't have to become an alcoholic to find the Holy Spirit; however, what still holds true is that ya gotta want It, and be willing to do whatever it takes to find It.

I had been an agnostic since I was 16. It was in AA where I discovered that the root of my agnosticism was in no longer believing that "God is Love/Good". I had no idea when I began in AA that I would find the Holy Grail - only that *something* was helping me get sober. No way did I suspect that something Holy was inside of me. The best explanation I could think of was that some kind of aura was helping me.

I had been a quasi-Seeker in my 20s and gave up in my 30s. When I found Gnostic writings, I thought I'd found the 'right pool', but still couldn't get past 'belief' being required. I wanted to Know, for myself.

What I know today is that two key phrases are true: 1Cor. 12:3 - ..."and no one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit" and 1Cor. 12-17- "...And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!" Easter has to happen in each of us - it isn't a 'done deal' as taught by many. Of course, that begs the question, "Ok, so who was it *really* who rose from the dead in the NT?" <s>

I also know, today, the truth of the saying, "Forgiveness is Divine; it comes from Within" and the essential need to "confess to one another".

From my experience, the spiritual side 'works backward': Do/experience, then Understand.

The first significant experience was discovering that there were '2 of me' inside my head. The one who wanted to get sober and another who was doing everything possible to convince me to pick up a drink. I was amazed how clearly the 'separation' was 'seen'. AA had promised to 'restore me to sanity'....clearly, I was going insane. But I was so fascinated with the new mind workings that I kept it to myself and kept working.

Granted, some find the Holy Spirit through white light experiences or apparitions, etc. My path was the 'manual' one. "Awareness is the answer; willingness to see, the key."

If anyone is interested in following the path I took, the first step would be in knowing that there are 'two voices' in the mind. One was Ego and the other was 'me', the Seeker. "A house divided against itself cannot stand" can be experienced as, "A house divided against its "self" cannot stand." Me and my self (ego) rather than 'myself' operating as a false 'one'.

I separated from ego when *I* wanted to get sober and ego wanted to keep drinking. I became divided (on that issue only, at first, but it was enough to begin the 'waking up'.) Perhaps pick something in your life that is common and choose to give it up for a period of time (a year is good, and more could be said about why). Expect temptation. For instance, giving up bread/starch (if one eats a lot of bread and it would be missed by ego). It takes awareness to pay attention to all the ways bread figures in the life of those who eat it regularly: bread pudding, breaded this and that, macaroni, etc..

The other item that likely causes many to stay away from serious seeking is the sex thing. Paul tells us like it is. We can't worship at the altar of sex and Holy Spirit. Of all the wrong turns of the Catholic Church, they once had one thing correct: sex *only* for procreation (ideally, as directed only by Holy Spirit).

I was a highly sexual/relationship person all of my life. When AA suggested that I not enter into a relationship for one year upon entering AA, I was desperate enough to listen and follow that suggestion. It was, initially, as difficult as getting sober as the 'pull' was so strong.

Please Note: There is no *sacrifice* on the spiritual path. ("Do not renounce...choose Other.") I didn't 'give up' sex or alcohol or force myself to quit - I desired life to make sense and was willing to following suggestions that others said improved their understanding of life. Life as I had done and known it had come to naught - I trusted there was another way. This is an important distinction. "Abstinence" from sex is a trap. When I'm willing to let go of one thing in order to reach for something better, it isn't 'sacrifice'. I let go because I've already, at some level, recognized the futility of an action - I just never knew there was anything better to put in its place. "Trust the Process."

In the Big Book of AA: p. 55 - "Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis, it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us."

While there are many references to "the Within" in the BB, it is a difficult read for non-alcoholics. However, the 12 Steps and 12 Trads book (using just the first 125 pp that has the 12 Steps. AA can be read as "Anything Anonymous".) was written with non-alkies in mind: Foreword - "Though the essays which follow were written mainly for members, it is thought by many of AA's friends that these pieces might arouse interest and find application outside of AA itself." This book was written 18 years after the BB and their vision of what may be possible had grown.

Right Desire is very powerful. "Don't *believe* anything I say; desire to know *for yourself* if what I say is true."

There are many 'mind tools' (found inside and outside of AA) that increase awareness and that then make it possible to distinctly hear the Holy Spirit as the "3rd voice" in the mind.

I think the name of this forum is excellent. For so long now I've wondered how to answer when someone asks if I'm a Christian because I know I'm not Christian in the world's current sense of the term. I came to this site from another forum I hadn't visited in a couple of years, and they had a link back to a post on this site. I like that the "unorthodox Christian" includes writings from other sources.

Please feel free to ask questions as I'm willing to share my experience, strength and Hope where there is interest.

Feed Hope.

Best to All,

tblue

phantasman
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Posts: 277

Why do you believe in God? Oct 24, 2015 10:57:29 GMT -5

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Post by phantasman on Oct 24, 2015 10:57:29 GMT -5

tblue,

I found your testimony heartfelt and spiritual. I understand your trek in alcohol, as I was an alcoholic for 25 years. 8 years reformed, with just Christ to thank. And as a Nicene Christian years ago, I just couldn't find the spiritual strength to give me the elation alcohol did. Like you, once the Gnosis of the truth was understood through non Canon scriptures, a new world opened up to me. As if I was only acting what a Christian should be like rather than attaining my own understanding from what I felt the Holy Spirit wanted me to know. The power of spirit seemed more amplified and truth became endless, and not the rereading of key verses like the Nicene Canon set up.

On sex, the desire is a physical/flesh desire. Christ said the "flesh profits nothing" and the "spirit is what makes you alive". The sins of the body die with the body. The weak body/flesh desires many things. If the body were worth anything, Christ would not have said that there is no better love than to lay it down for another. Bodies die, spirits live. As a female, you have nothing less than any male. We are all spiritually equal, and see wisdom (Sophia) as a fem. trait from the Father-Mother. God is neither female nor male, but both. The division of male/female is flesh. The unification is spiritual.

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."-Thomas

No one was given the keys to unlock truth for us. We come together to aid each other in the seeking of truth through spiritual understanding.

Welcome to our little part of the world.

Dan

Last Edit: Oct 24, 2015 11:28:13 GMT -5 by phantasman