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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 16, 2014 14:23:21 GMT -5
Not everything has a morality to it. I don't ever see Gnostic Christianity becoming that popular. For one thing most people don't like to think. Gnostic Christianity will be championed by women and gays.
What other Abrahamic cult gives women and gays full equality from the get go?
Only Gnostic Christians do as we have to recognize the Gods and Goddesses within all of us. Jesus was a Universalist and Gnostic Christians are the only Abrahamic cultists who follow Jesus' true teachings.
Regards DL
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Post by gnosticbishop on Feb 16, 2014 14:27:31 GMT -5
I should probably be more clear. As long as people find the Gnosis of God the vehicle of delivery isn't important. I feel like our texts are too cerebral for the average person, as I know they're often too cerebral for me, since when I read them I tend to stick to a small handful, and my eyes start to cross when I start read many of the others. It may truly be a "thinking man's religion" but for it's just not something that is useful to a large number of people b/c it is so esoteric and cerebral. The Gnosis of God is beyond thought and understanding, so I feel like a genuine seeker is likely to find it through much simpler means than reading our texts and following this path specifically. If we're called to be "Gnostic Christian" specifically then that is important, and I think our tradition is an incredibly important one to carry forward, even though we'll always be a tiny minority. Well said except for your last.
That is hogwash. The importance is what will insure that it not remain tiny. Women will win the day.
Regards DL
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Feb 16, 2014 15:12:50 GMT -5
I feel like from posting on forums etc that a large percentage of Gnostics are already homosexuals or women. However, we haven't seen large numbers of women and homosexuals abandoning ship to to appeal to things which are IMO much more heavily social issues than they are theological issues. I expect that it is more likely that we'll see women and homosexuals change the orthodox churches than we will see our numbers grow.
Also I'm not familiar with any Gnostic writing that is specifically pro-gay. Plus if you look at the Gospel of Judas, at least DeConick's translation is incredibly anti-gay, to the point that I think it is embarrassing.
In my view people can find the Gnosis of God through Orthodox sources, other religions, and even false religions. I expect eventually we will see this happen more and more. Maybe not in our lifetime but I hope someday eventually. For instance I hear anecdotes of Muslims having visions of Christ and a desire to seek Christ. I think this sort of thing will happen more and more. (And I don't say that to be anti-Islam, but I do see Islam, in many cases, as the extension of the rule-based religion of YHWH.)
I'm not going to argue too much about this. It's my view, so take it for what you will. If we increase in number then great, if we don't then God will use another tool to speak through. Even if you consider the Gnostic responsibility that each of us is a priest or priestess, then it is still not my concern that more people become "Gnostic" but only that more people experience Gnosis. It's not my responsibility to cheer-lead our specific vehicle of Gnosis, but only to help facilitate the experience in any way that I can.
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Post by rmcdra on Feb 16, 2014 22:56:52 GMT -5
I should probably be more clear. As long as people find the Gnosis of God the vehicle of delivery isn't important. I feel like our texts are too cerebral for the average person, as I know they're often too cerebral for me, since when I read them I tend to stick to a small handful, and my eyes start to cross when I start read many of the others. It may truly be a "thinking man's religion" but for it's just not something that is useful to a large number of people b/c it is so esoteric and cerebral. The Gnosis of God is beyond thought and understanding, so I feel like a genuine seeker is likely to find it through much simpler means than reading our texts and following this path specifically. If we're called to be "Gnostic Christian" specifically then that is important, and I think our tradition is an incredibly important one to carry forward, even though we'll always be a tiny minority. We don't have "2000 years of tradition" behind us. The text have been around for the last 70 years and we are finally have a historical and cultural context to appreciate the text and "translate" it if you will to modern times. How many people have written commentaries on the various books of the Bible and compare that to what commentaries there are of the Nag Hammadi Library. Lack of exposure and lack of understanding of the texts in question do not help. It also doesn't help when you have con artists trying to shuck the Nag Hammadi Library as some sort of magical tome and grants you superpowers if you jump through the "goo-ruus" hoops. There's also the issue of culture. For a religion to grow, it has to be a part of the culture. The religion has to be lived if you will and well outside of New Agers who claim to be Gnostic, most of your Gnostics are spread out and living in different communities miles from each other. If it were not for the internet, I wouldn't know other Gnostics. So you have a number of factors that contribute why Gnostic Christianity is very big. Yes the texts are difficult but they can be simplified and translated by people who understand the material. I hope one day to write a massive commentary on all the Nag Hammadi and Biblical text I use but I don't know when I'm ever going to get to it. |
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Post by Soulgazer on Feb 17, 2014 15:35:18 GMT -5
I should probably be more clear. As long as people find the Gnosis of God the vehicle of delivery isn't important. I feel like our texts are too cerebral for the average person, as I know they're often too cerebral for me, since when I read them I tend to stick to a small handful, and my eyes start to cross when I start read many of the others. It may truly be a "thinking man's religion" but for it's just not something that is useful to a large number of people b/c it is so esoteric and cerebral. The Gnosis of God is beyond thought and understanding, so I feel like a genuine seeker is likely to find it through much simpler means than reading our texts and following this path specifically. If we're called to be "Gnostic Christian" specifically then that is important, and I think our tradition is an incredibly important one to carry forward, even though we'll always be a tiny minority. We don't have "2000 years of tradition" behind us. The text have been around for the last 70 years and we are finally have a historical and cultural context to appreciate the text and "translate" it if you will to modern times. How many people have written commentaries on the various books of the Bible and compare that to what commentaries there are of the Nag Hammadi Library. Lack of exposure and lack of understanding of the texts in question do not help. It also doesn't help when you have con artists trying to shuck the Nag Hammadi Library as some sort of magical tome and grants you superpowers if you jump through the "goo-ruus" hoops. There's also the issue of culture. For a religion to grow, it has to be a part of the culture. The religion has to be lived if you will and well outside of New Agers who claim to be Gnostic, most of your Gnostics are spread out and living in different communities miles from each other. If it were not for the internet, I wouldn't know other Gnostics. So you have a number of factors that contribute why Gnostic Christianity is very big. Yes the texts are difficult but they can be simplified and translated by people who understand the material. I hope one day to write a massive commentary on all the Nag Hammadi and Biblical text I use but I don't know when I'm ever going to get to it. You have made some very good points. A living community of Christian gnostics would be a pretty good start, but in lieu of that we just have to keep on doing what we are doing; be an oasis of critical history and study and present to the world a version of ancient Christianity that can be actually lived. We have the Naghammadi and Bruce codex as well as the Pistis Sophia that give us a few "bones" to make some educated insights in the "backrooms". What is presented to the world (and I am still looking for that children's book) has to be simple and easy to understand. Which is why I like Alpha and Omega's synopsis and simplified mythology: |
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Feb 17, 2014 22:36:28 GMT -5
It is interesting though, that despite how few people actually know what Gnosticism is, it is still very present in movies like the Matrix and all kinds of Japanese anime. I think the basic outline and archetypes of Gnostic Christianity really resonate with people.
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Post by Soulgazer on Feb 18, 2014 0:42:38 GMT -5
It is interesting though, that despite how few people actually know what Gnosticism is, it is still very present in movies like the Matrix and all kinds of Japanese anime. I think the basic outline and archetypes of Gnostic Christianity really resonate with people. I believe that we all have the same teacher--- If you have read the Q'uran and the Veda, as well as the Gospels, there is the same back-theme present in all of it. I think the demiurge takes the forefront in all of them, even some of the gnostic text, but the back theme of filling yourself with love is still present through all the obfuscating dogma. Pastor Wood (rcmdra) has addressed how those not grown up in post-modern Christianity have an easier time identifying the mysticism of the overall myth. |
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Feb 18, 2014 16:45:40 GMT -5
It is interesting though, that despite how few people actually know what Gnosticism is, it is still very present in movies like the Matrix and all kinds of Japanese anime. I think the basic outline and archetypes of Gnostic Christianity really resonate with people. I believe that we all have the same teacher--- If you have read the Q'uran and the Veda, as well as the Gospels, there is the same back-theme present in all of it. I think the demiurge takes the forefront in all of them, even some of the gnostic text, but the back theme of filling yourself with love is still present through all the obfuscating dogma. Pastor Wood (rcmdra) has addressed how those not grown up in post-modern Christianity have an easier time identifying the mysticism of the overall myth. It is interesting to me that a few years back I remember coming across some rather heated writing/argument about whether or not Gnosticism was just another form of "New Age" anything goes religion. I think it is an interesting distinction though to point out that although truth is everywhere (even though it might be hidden), but every religion has a demi-urge lurking, and every religion can be a false religion. I think in this way Gnosticism carries great truths, although it's most important aspect may be the warning it carries for all religious people. |
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Post by friendofsophia on Mar 6, 2014 5:01:42 GMT -5
I should probably be more clear. As long as people find the Gnosis of God the vehicle of delivery isn't important. I feel like our texts are too cerebral for the average person, as I know they're often too cerebral for me, since when I read them I tend to stick to a small handful, and my eyes start to cross when I start read many of the others. It may truly be a "thinking man's religion" but for it's just not something that is useful to a large number of people b/c it is so esoteric and cerebral. The Gnosis of God is beyond thought and understanding, so I feel like a genuine seeker is likely to find it through much simpler means than reading our texts and following this path specifically. If we're called to be "Gnostic Christian" specifically then that is important, and I think our tradition is an incredibly important one to carry forward, even though we'll always be a tiny minority. Well said! I have been studying Gnostic Christianity for years and identified with many of its concepts before I came across the names for them. I've read many of the Nag Hammadi texts already but have recently taken it upon myself to read the entire Nag Hammadi Library. And yeah....when I try to read through it like a college text book it often makes my head spin. I'll often have to set it down feeling a bit baffled and move along to something else. Then I'll hear or see something in a song or a movie that I now see on a whole new level. I often ponder all the gnostic themes in various books, movies, and music and wonder how often the artist is consciously aware of the gnostic themes. Certainly Philip K Dick and many others were but I think what we call "gnosis" shines through whenever people attempt to express something of Truth and have experienced something of it themselves giving them the ability to express it. Whenever I can start to tell I am over thinking something (which is a quite common occurrence) I think of the movie Forrest Gump in which simple minded Forrest was a living embodiment of the Love and Wisdom of the True God and his light freed the trapped divine sparks in whoever would listen to him long enough. One of my favorite unlikely gnostic themed movies I 've discovered relatively recently is Wreck it Ralph. I saw it in the theater with my little nephew and my 3 yr old daughter and was blown away when I realized what a powerful portrayal of the gnostic mythos it was. Venelopie von Shweets makes a great Sophia and King Candy really nails his role as Yaldaboath. Anyway maybe I'm getting off topic, I'm new here..............but looking at the subject again I guess that's what we do with mythology in all its forms. I guess as long we remember our little creations (including our conception of God) only points to the truth....we're good......and then of course we realize they're not entirely our creations to begin with......we're only half-makers. |
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