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Post by xpistissopheiax on Jul 22, 2013 22:31:03 GMT -5
It seems like a consistent thread between Genesis and Emanations cosmology that evil can only exist because of free will.
Genesis seems to be a logical argument that only disobedience can cause evil. In this myth God creates a perfect world and lets man do anything he wants except disobey.
It kind of seems like the writers of this text were trapped into making YHWH a bully by their own logic since if free will causes evil then the only act of free will that can possibly create evil is disobedience.
So by framing the myth in this way they create the bully god that screams "Obey me or die!"
I feel like emanations makes the most sense of any system I'm familiar with. It is still free will that causes evil. I find it interesting however it is interesting that the act of free will that causes Yalda's birth is Sophia's desire to create on Her own. This isn't necessarily disobedience. Yalda's act of attempting to create his own world is similarly not an act of disobedience, but one of ignorance.
I think this myth is incredibly well thought out b/c God is neither a bully or responsible for the evil in the world.
It is a bit strange that Wisdom's act of creation triggers the chain of events that lead to evil. I read somewhere recently that this was a dig at philosophers who placed too much emphasis on "wisdom," or something to that effect.
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Post by phantasman on Jul 23, 2013 12:15:48 GMT -5
I am starting to get the feeling that the creation of man (and woman) are not the story as projected by Orthodox thought. If man had been created out of "dust" and hadn't "sinned", was he a physical body that could live forever? If he was physical, was he not under the laws of matter (decay)?
I understand the underlying message of Eden and sin. But I cannot help but feel that there was more than we are seeing. That Eden was spiritual (non matter) and is a parable, and the transgression he committed made him physical (and able to decay (die)).
I may be wrong, but what is past is past. And I like to open my mind to possibilities.
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Jul 23, 2013 23:41:47 GMT -5
I think the assumption was that all decay was caused by sin.
It's unfortunate but I think the creation of the universe will always be an enormous mystery. I don't think the orthodox creation myth is very close to our actual origins.
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Post by rmcdra on Jul 29, 2013 20:07:41 GMT -5
The cause of the fall of Sophia is a combination of ignorance and pride. Sophia acting like a know it all teenager created Yaldaboth not knowing any better. She tries to hide from her mistake and then it got even worse. How does she fix it? By owning up to her mistake and asking for help in fixing her error when she realized she couldn't fix it on her own.
I like this telling of the creation of evil because it makes sense. Evil is produced from not only being ignorant but having your head so far up your ass that you won't admit that your ignorant and it perpetuates by refusing to address that there is even a problem.
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Post by hexalpa on Jul 29, 2013 20:25:14 GMT -5
I am a bit rusty on the supposedly "correct" interpretation of The Fall as it is presented in Genesis, but I seem to recall being taught that prior to The Fall of Man, matter was some sort of "Preter-matter"that was not subject to decay. Then again, I may be misremembering. In any event, I very much prefer an Emanations Cosmology.
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Post by g_n_o_s_i_s on Jul 29, 2013 21:40:04 GMT -5
To what degree did free will play in the beliefs of early Christians? I can't think of one instance off my head.
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Post by xpistissopheiax on Jul 30, 2013 1:09:51 GMT -5
IMHO both the Genesis myth and Emanations revolve around the concept of God's allowance of free will being the source of evil. I think this is a safe assumption b/c if there is no free will than there really isn't much point in contemplating our role in the universe I really wish I could remember the text, but I read a Gnostic verse that said something to the effect that: "The light of Gnosis is freely available to all men at any time, which in turn will free them from the fate of the archons." I think this was partially a dig at astrology (archons were often synonymous with stars and planets), which if I believe was a much more deterministic system.
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