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Thunder
Nov 27, 2014 9:36:50 GMT -5
Post by phantasman on Nov 27, 2014 9:36:50 GMT -5
Is Thunder, Perfect Mind a riddle of the Savior? The scholars seem to think so. To me it seems more as the Holy Spirit or/as Sophia.
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Thunder
Nov 28, 2014 5:58:29 GMT -5
Post by Soulgazer on Nov 28, 2014 5:58:29 GMT -5
We are studying "Thunder" in church this week.
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Thunder
Dec 1, 2014 12:47:54 GMT -5
Post by phantasman on Dec 1, 2014 12:47:54 GMT -5
A very enlightening synopsis. Nag Hammadi notation seems to think that the Savior is speaking here.
Bentley Layton writes, "The Thunder - Perfect Intellect ('Thunder, Perfect Mind') is a riddlesome monologue spoken by the immanent savior, here represented as a female character and identifiable as 'afterthought,' a manifestation of wisdom and Barbelo in gnostic myth. In gnostic myth the role of afterthought - also known as 'life' (Zoe), the female instructing principle, and the holy spirit - is to assist both Adam and all humankind, in order to recollect the power stolen by Ialdabaoth (BJn 20:14f) and now dispersed in the gnostic race. She is immanent in all gnostics who have the holy spirit (BJn 25:20f).
But it appears that the Holy Spirit, even if it were by the Savior, is the main character and context. This seems to bring me back to a question I once asked. Does the Holy Spirit=Sophia? Is Sophia the Holy Spirit? (in spiritual relevance)
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Post by Soulgazer on Dec 1, 2014 18:49:55 GMT -5
But it appears that the Holy Spirit, even if it were by the Savior, is the main character and context. This seems to bring me back to a question I once asked. Does the Holy Spirit=Sophia? Is Sophia the Holy Spirit? (in spiritual relevance) I think that would depend entirely upon your faith. These writings are stories, and how you interpret them tells as much about yourself as it does about the author. The author hit upon some deep universal truth that garners our attention, but then it is all about us after that.
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Post by phantasman on Dec 2, 2014 13:46:22 GMT -5
I think I see your point, James. It's like saying X is truth. But Y is truth as well. If you don't see both at least follow the one you can see. Both arrive at the same place eventually.
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Thunder
Dec 12, 2014 2:54:41 GMT -5
Post by friendofsophia on Dec 12, 2014 2:54:41 GMT -5
A very enlightening synopsis. Nag Hammadi notation seems to think that the Savior is speaking here. Bentley Layton writes, "The Thunder - Perfect Intellect ('Thunder, Perfect Mind') is a riddlesome monologue spoken by the immanent savior, here represented as a female character and identifiable as 'afterthought,' a manifestation of wisdom and Barbelo in gnostic myth. In gnostic myth the role of afterthought - also known as 'life' (Zoe), the female instructing principle, and the holy spirit - is to assist both Adam and all humankind, in order to recollect the power stolen by Ialdabaoth (BJn 20:14f) and now dispersed in the gnostic race. She is immanent in all gnostics who have the holy spirit (BJn 25:20f). But it appears that the Holy Spirit, even if it were by the Savior, is the main character and context. This seems to bring me back to a question I once asked. Does the Holy Spirit=Sophia? Is Sophia the Holy Spirit? (in spiritual relevance) For me personally, I've come to see Sophia as the Holy Spirit. It is important to me for my faith to go hand and hand with my experience and imagination. So for me its important to have the figures of Christ and Holy Sophia as a way of envisioning the essence of the true loving God.....shining out of all of the confusion and chaos. Part of the beauty of the Nag Hammadi Library is that, upon reading, it is soon apparent that just about every text was clearly written by someone who has a different take on the Gnostic mythos. Each author likely focuses on the aspects that personally inspire them. This is doubly good since it both prevents the myths from calcifying into rigid doctrine as well as requiring the reader to look within for the meaning (instead of spoon feeding them pat answers to the mysteries of existence). So for me, I see Sophia and Christ as complementary and equally holy. Yes, Sophia made a mistake and created the Demiurge and his imperfect world. Yet she "fell" into this world to try to make it right. Christ came into this world to save Sophia, and I think would have gotten as lost as she was if she hadn't inspired him and reminded him who he was. He took her place on this cross of wood world, entrusting her to "Show the way home Holy Wisdom". Christ reminded her of the Way home, she remembered falling all of the way down, as low as you can go.......so no matter how far down you feel you are, or how worthless, or guilty, or shameful.......fallen Sophia has been there first, and she's there now waiting to show you the way home, to inspire that Christ within you to be her hero and free her and her children from the bondage of the archons and at last be one with your Beloved.......That's how I envision it any way, take it as literal, metaphysical, or metaphorical as you need it to be. And that's why, for me, I don't see "fallen" Sophia as bad any more than I would see "incarnate" Christ as bad. I understand what is meant by "fallen wisdom" and I agree with that concept to a point but for me Sophia is wisdom, and a whole lot more....and I'd guess the author(s) of "Thunder" would agree. I've always found it remarkable that although Sophia in the Gnostic myths is basically responsible for all of the evil in the world; she is often referred to as "innocent", the "innocent one" or "innocent Sophia". This is confusing to some but to me it makes perfect sense. If my 4 year old daughter had the ability to create a universe with a thought, even though I may have told her not to, she probably would anyway. No matter how f$*%ed up that world could be, she still would have created it out of innocent curiosity and I would forgive her without her even needing to ask. I believe that's the way of the true loving God. It's the f$%ed up god of this world that would harshly punish innocent curiosity. Yeah, Sophia made a mistake, but in making a mistake, realizing it, learning from it, taking responsibility for it, and doing what one can to make it right, one gains...........................wisdom.
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